I am fascinated by lines....musical lines. And more interestingly, how these lines can be crossed, fused and blurred. The boundaries between jazz and classical music have been probed and tested continuously by everyone from Ravel to Shostakovich to Gershwin. Which brings me to Joe Cartwright. Joe is a jazz pianist who has been helping shape and define the jazz music scene in Kansas City for over 30 years. I met Joe when he was a guest soloist with the Independence Symphony several years ago. He played Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue. As I have explained in a previous entry (I Heard Violins) the fusion of jazz with strings really turns me on. Rhapsody in Blue is an iconic work, and as I learned during this concert, it is a very demanding work for any pianist. I was immediately impressed by Joe's technique and musicality. He seemed to be very comfortable in both the jazz and classical world. We sat down to talk recently at Twisted Sisters Coffee in Mission, KS. I wanted to learn more about his artistry and his personal relationship with jazz and classical music.
TH: I know you have played in the classical realm because I
was there when you played Rhapsody in Blue with the Independence Symphony…that
work in itself is what I call a “boundary spanner”. Gershwin in general is that
way.
JC: Absolutely one of the better examples of crossing genres.
TH: There was a great article in the NY Times about the
Hollywood String Quartet who was founded by Felix Slatkin (whose son Leonard later became Music Director of the St. Louis Symphony) and how they became famous as
the backing for Frank Sinatra in his legendary Capital years. I love the fusion
of strings and jazz.
JC: The Charlie Parker with Strings recording is a great
example of fusing jazz with strings. One of my favorite jazz recordings with
string arrangements is Shirley Horne’s Here’s to Life. Another really great
string arranger is Dave Grusin. I really admire his work.
TH: How do you classify yourself?
JC: It says Kansas City jazz pianist on my website…that’s
what I am putting out there. My business card just says pianist on it.
So…pianist works.
TH: Have you studied classical music?
JC: Yes, I have a Bachelor’s degree in piano performance
from UMKC.
TH: That serves you well in any kind of music you play I
would think?
JC: I guess (smiling…modestly).
TH: So do you enjoy playing classical music? Do you ever sit
down and play a Chopin prelude or something like that?
JC: I do! I don’t really keep a repertoire up. But for
example, I had a job last weekend where I was asked to play a program of all
Scott Joplin music…which isn’t really classical or jazz…it’s kind of in the
middle. So I found that my sight reading chops are still good, and I read
through half a dozen pieces and played them for a memorial service. The thing
with Joplin….a lot of pianists try to play it too fast…. It’s really more
stately.
TH: And Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue is a big staple of the
classical repertoire.
JC: I performed the solo version as well as with the ISO…and
I am going to be creating an arrangement of it with the music director of the
KC Jazz Orchestra, Clint Ashlock. We are going to collaborate on an arrangement
that will be some sort of adaptation of the Ferde Groffe arrangement with maybe
some extra sections. You may not know that on the original recording of
Rhapsody in Blue that Gershwin made, a lot of the sections were improvised…then
later transcribed. He just didn’t have it all fleshed out when he got the
commission. That’s really a credit to his skill as a pianist.
TH: Jazz musicians live in that world of improvisation
whereas classical musicians play what is written on the page…they are not often
trained in improvisation.
JC: That’s a shame. In the world of piano, especially in the
19th century, improvisation was expected as part of the concert. The
pianist would ask the audience for a melody and then improvise on it. It seems
that pianists today are intimidated or afraid of that. For me, with my
classical background…it’s about applying all the rules of theory to come up
with an alternate melody. That’s basically what improvisation is…coming up with
an alternate melody based on the chord changes…. and then you employ whatever
devices you have access to…scales, modes,
arpeggios etc. And baroque devices like sequencing, inversion, retrograde
inversion…all that stuff. Those are technical terms for a way to play a group
of notes. In the baroque era these rules were very strict. I use a sort of a looser interpretation of
those rules. Plus, applying elements that are not necessarily musical elements
to draw creative inspiration from, like numbers for example. If I look into the
audience and I see a group of 4 people, then I think of the number 4, then I
decide what does that number mean to me in relation to where I am in the song?
It might allow me to think out of the box. I might think of the IV chord for
example, or a group of 4 notes. Or maybe I see two people wearing hats in the
audience…so that’s kind of the process, besides just musical devices.
TH: Is it a struggle for you to play a classical or “legit
gig” with an orchestra accompaniment, where each note is required to come together in a precise way , and you
aren't free to add notes and improvise at will?
JC: No, I don’t think about that...I mean whatever the
parameters of the gig are, that’s what I adhere to.
TH: Do you have a favorite type of setting or ensemble to
work with?
JC: I do…piano, bass, and drums….the classic piano trio.
TH: What is it about the trio you like so much?
JC: It’s intimate, and I think it allows for a lot of
interplay, especially with musicians that you’re comfortable with and that I
have performed with for a number of years. It takes a while to build up the interaction
and the trust...the rapport. I look to them for inspiration too. The more
comfortable you are with each other, the more extended the boundaries become of
what you can do and where the music can go.
TH: Who are your top 5 jazz pianists?
JC: There are probably 20! But Oscar Peterson, Cedar Walton,
…(I like the way his trio works)….Herbie Hancock, Michel Camilo….and Jay McShann.
TH: What style of jazz would you say you enjoy the most?
JC: My style of jazz playing is more bebop oriented…with a
strong right hand. I’d like to develop my left hand more.
TH: What other things interest you? Do you listen to a lot
of music?
JC: I am a huge tennis fan…I try to play 3 times a week…and
I subscribe to the tennis channel. So that’s a passion. But to address your
question, I am required to do some listening on a weekly basis. I am the Music Director
at Unity Village Chapel in Unity Village, MO where I arrange several new pieces
of music a week. I also write charts for artists that want to get their music
published but don’t know how to put their music into a format that any musician
can read. Then I have music I listen to for the radio show on NPR, 12th
Street Jump, which is heard on 120 stations…syndicated nationally. We get
played on stations from Alaska to Florida. Our local affiliate is KCUR 90.3 FM.
I have a backlog of CD’s from artists I have never heard but I want to listen
to because I want to keep up with new music that’s coming out. I like to listen
to music actively…not passively.
TH: That’s almost a lost art these days.
JC: It requires concentration to listen actively.
TH: Do you have any composer in the classical world you
enjoy the most?
JC: Absolutely. I like composers that write for piano, like
Chopin for example. Debussy. Ravel. I’m a big fan of the Argentinian composer
Alberto Ginastera….very interesting and rhythmic, Latin influenced. I really
like Bach…love to play Bach.
TH: How did you get your start?
JC: I used to sit on the piano bench and watch my
grandmother.
TH: Are you from KC?
JC: I grew up in Leavenworth, Kansas. One set of
grandparents lived in Kansas City, and the other set of grandparents lived in
St. Joseph, MO. And so we split times on weekends between one place and the
other. My maternal grandmother…actually both of my grandmothers played piano.
And my mom and dad played piano. We had a piano in the house all the time. I
started taking piano lessons when I was 8. Once I started showing some promise
my parents bought a baby grand piano, but they couldn't afford to keep it. So
they traded pianos with some neighbors up the street so we wound up with this
upright, converted player piano….the mechanical parts had been removed, but
these pianos were made with heavy duty frames, so it added a huge amount of
weight to these pianos, and they were really hard to move. My parents moved
from Iowa to Florida and were going to sell it, so I told them I would come get
it. I rented a U-Haul and went up to Iowa and brought the piano back to the carriage
house I was renting at the time. I ended up selling it to a student who lived
on the second floor of a house in Hyde Park. It cost more to move it up there
than the piano was worth! That piano is still up there…and this was 30 years
ago. I know the guy that owns the house. He still says, “oh yeah, your piano is
still up there. Come over and play it sometime”.
TH: What pianos do you play at home?
JC: I have 2 Yamahas...a 5’7” Yamaha and a 6’8” Yamaha. I
purchased a Yamaha G5 grand from a former student of mine. It became available
right after my wife and I had decided to downsize and bought a condo in Mission,
KS with a finished basement, so I converted that into my studio. When this
piano became available, I had to figure out how to get it into the basement.
And that required knocking out a wall, for which I had to petition the home
owners association!
TH: How is the jazz scene in Kansas City these days?
JC: Kansas City has a great reputation. Jazz just goes with
Kansas City. I’d have to say that compared to just about any other major city
except perhaps New York and New Orleans, Kansas City has a vibrant jazz scene.
TH: So one can be a working musician, playing jazz here?
JC: Yes…there are of course a lot of factors. You gotta be
good, you gotta be a business person….and just because you are talented doesn't
mean you are going to get a gig. I've done my share of studio work and
recordings here as well.
TH: Do you tour?
JC: Yeah. I used to tour a lot. I did two tours as a jazz
ambassador for the State Department and that’s taken me all around the world.
It was really a lifetime experience. I played in 7 countries in Africa, the
Middle East…..we were, I believe, the first US jazz band to do a joint concert
with a Palestinian band in the West Bank. We also played in Thailand, Malaysia,
and India.
TH: How were you received in these places?
JC: Most places we were really well received. The experience
in the West Bank was pretty amazing because people have no hope there, and
their music reflects that. A lot of it is sad. But we did several joint
concerts with a Palestinian band…in Ramallah and Bethlehem. We went to a
recording studio in Jerusalem and had a jam session and worked out what we were
going to play together. I remember the concert we played in Ramallah. They
played a program, then we played, then we did two songs together. When we
started playing together, the audience went crazy. It was explained to me
later…when they saw an American band with a Palestinian band, it transcended
all of the politics…what they saw was two different cultures coming together. And
if they can do this musically, we can do this politically. That’s the way they
were thinking. So it gave them hope.
TH: That s incredible!
JC: Until I performed in some third world countries around
the world, I didn't think about that. But once I did, it gave me a whole new
perspective on how music can really bring people together.
TH: How do you keep fresh and stay interested gigging week
after week?
JC: I treat every job as a professional. I play what‘s
required of me to the best of my ability and try to find something that’s
aesthetically pleasing and rewarding about every gig. When I’m the leader that means I have flexibility, and I hire musicians that inspire
me. I try to find some form of inspiration to propel the music to a new place.
That’s what keeps it fresh for me….to always be searching for that new place.
Sometimes it happens as a result of interaction within the band. Sometimes it
happens as part of the symbiosis between the audience and the band. In addition
to playing, my two main jobs are putting together two new radio shows every
month. I am also the Music Director at Unity Village Chapel every Sunday, so
that keeps me busy too.
TH: What are some places you play around town?
JC: The Gaslight Grille at 135th and Roe. I play there
with a clarinetist named Lynn Zimmer several nights a month. I play at the Blue
Room, the Green Lady Lounge in the Crossroads District, Chaz on the Plaza in
the Raphael Hotel. I also do some corporate gigs and recording sessions.
TH: Do you have an agent?
JC: I am not exclusive with an agency, but there are 3-4
agencies that have me on their call list who I work with. I've been involved
with an organization that’s just getting started called Kansas City Jazz Alive.
What we are trying to do is “float all ships” that are involved with jazz in
KC. We are a support group. Its
musicians assisting musicians…. dealing with things like how to find work and
how to get health insurance. I am trying to help them develop a database of
jazz musicians.
TH: I understand you had a chance to perform at the opening of
the Kauffman Center for the Performing Arts?
JC: I had to turn down the opportunity to play at the grand
opening about 3 years ago. Since I am the Music director of 12th
Street Jump radio show, and we had a show that night and they can’t really do
the show without me. So I had to turn
down the opportunity to play at the Kauffman. But I have been hoping to get a
chance to do something there ever since, so now I will with the KC Jazz
Orchestra next season.
TH: I am also curious about the physical toll being a
musician takes on the body….and the mind. How are you feeling these days?
JC: My energy is as high as always. Physically, the main
area I have to deal with is my back. …posture and back support is critical.
Every piano is different, so I take my own chair to gigs.
TH: Joe, thank you for taking time to speak with me. I really enjoyed it.
JC: Me too. Thank you too!
.JPG)
